It never gets old does it?

Snicker.

Moxie, I LOVE IT!!

You've really outdone yourself!!!

Keep up the right work.

I am liberal and therefore have no sense of humor. Is this supposed to be funny? I thought it was funny when President Reagan was shot, but this just made me mad and caused even more of my hair to fall out.

Also, if I were to be born again, I would want to do so "progressively," i.e. through a man's butt. That will show you conservatives.

I am liberal and therefore have no sense of humor. Is this supposed to be funny? I thought it was funny when President Reagan was shot, but this just made me mad and caused even more of my hair to fall out.

Also, if I were to be born again, I would want to do so "progressively," i.e. through a man's butt. That will show you conservatives.

I am liberal and therefore have no sense of humor. Is this supposed to be funny? I thought it was funny when President Reagan was shot, but this just made me mad and caused even more of my hair to fall out.

Also, if I were to be born again, I would want to do so "progressively," i.e. through a man's butt. That will show you conservatives.

Because I am liberal, my opinion is more important than yours. I have therefore posted my nuanced comment three times. Bush is Hitler. Lynne Cheney is Eva Braun. Karl Rove is Sergeant Schultz.

That is all.

You didn't say anything about pickup trucks, good dogs, children with manners or Confederate flags. You're glossing over some serious EEEVILLL here.

Hehe, Moxie,

You just made my day. :)

Awesome piece. Yeayah. :)

Woah! Michael Moore would crap his draws if he read this.

I love it! :)

Wait a minute, Confederate flags are EEEEVIL? I better go wash mine in that big ol' tub of holy water down at the Catholic Church. What do I do about the ones on my mudflaps though? I don't think my truck will fit through the doors.

"Also, if I were to be born again, I would want to do so "progressively," i.e. through a man's butt."

Ergo, you're just a pile of crap?

I'm thinking Geebushland could be a viable and possibly funner place than the more traditional Jesusland, which could outlaw margaritas (especially if served by a buff poolboy). Anyway, after 3 or 4 margaritas (and maybe a hot mamasita) Jesusland could begin to sound an awful lot Geebushland ... pass the shalt and lime, pleashe.

Remember kids, Jesusland is more economical when you by the season pass.

Moxie,

The funny thing is that you and Michael Moore would probably have a great time if you got together and laughed out loud about how “stupid” us “God”-believers are. You and Mr. Moore are both Atheists after all.

Why are you trying to pretend that you disagree with him on this specific point?

What am I suppose to conclude regarding You on this issue?

That you love the result (output, product, the Effect) of traditional religious belief, yet you believe the foundation (premise, axioms, the Cause (i.e. The Source)) of that belief to be foolish and absurd?

That’s utterly inconsistent.

… which is completely out of character for the Moxie I once knew.

"Ergo, you're just a pile of crap?"

NUANCED crap. Or, as we sophisticated liberals would say, a Fecal-American.

"Ergo, you're just a pile of crap?"

NUANCED crap. Or, as we sophisticated liberals would say, a Fecal-American.

"NO SHIT!!"

LMAO off at "sophisticated" Liberals. I just love the insertion of self-agrandizing adjectives.

Ref Post of The serpent
I for one do not know what to make of your post.Is this some back handed attempt to chastise mox because she said she was an atheist by comparing her to Michael Moore? I think you should conclude that she was being humorous like she does all the time.The fact that she is an atheist does not proclud her from holding a lot of the same values that christians do.I believe in god.I also believe that your ham handed attempt to prostilitize reflects your hypocracy and gives christians a bad name. May I suggest that you look to your own soul. Mox will come to her salvation in her and gods time not yours.

Jack Hamilton: Is this some back handed attempt to chastise mox because she said she was an atheist by comparing her to Michael Moore?

Mr. Hamilton I can only assure you that I am not attempting to insult the Moxie at all.

She has asserted that she is an Atheist, so has Michael Moore. I am merely reflecting (repeating/reiterating) the reality of the situation.

Jack Hamilton: The fact that she is an atheist does not preclude her from holding a lot of the same values that christians do.

I disagree.

The Christians* believe in ultimate consequences for action. The Christians believe that a benevolent (conscious) entity generates this reality.

Atheists do not believe in ultimate consequences for their actions. And they behave exactly as if that is what they believe.

Jack Hamilton: I believe in god. I also believe that your ham handed attempt to prostilitize reflects your hypocrisy and gives christians a bad name.

I am not a Christian.

Nor am I here to promote a particular set of dogmatic religious beliefs.

I merely assert that it is logically inconsistent, unparsimonious, and utterly incomprehensible to assert that “God” does not exist (and that is especially true if you simultaneously assert the existence of magic “free will” powers).

So even if you are an Agnostic (by word and action) then I really don’t have a problem with you.

But the Atheists, at least those that are self-aware are pure evil, right down to the core of their very Souls.

Jack Hamilton: May I suggest that you look to your own soul.

(Good) Advice I find myself compelled to obey constantly (persistently).

Jack Hamilton: Mox will come to her salvation in her and gods time not yours.

Well, I would say that God (or Tlop if you prefer) is going to save Moxie’s Soul whether Moxie wants her to or not.

But you shouldn’t mind me … my atoms are merely obeying what the immutable laws of Physics commands them to do. It is not as if “I” have any “choice” in the matter. You might as well complain to the Moon that it isn’t orbiting the Earth properly (correctly).

-----------------

* I should point out that in the same way that not all individuals who label themselves as “Atheists” are actually Atheists in reality, that not all individuals who label themselves as “Christians” are Christians in reality. To be a Christian (or an Atheist for that matter) you have to actually behave as a Christian. In other words, labels (symbols) don’t have any (material) substance in their own right.

I (me/myself) think that The Serpent (turdsniffer/asshat) has been educated beyond his/her intelligence.

Based on...? Do you really think that belief in a Prime Mover is necessary to formulate a system of morality or find agreement in some aspects of a value system? Michael Moore (atheist/lardass) and Jerry Kirksey (Christian/lardass) can agree that it is objectively WRONG to waste a Krispy Kreme donut.

Although I am guessing that by "values" y'all meant something a bit more substantial.

Maybe it would be better to say that Moxie (atheist/delicious babe) and Billy Graham agree for different (or even the same) reasons on something such as the value of life as it relates to abortion.

There are plenty of shared values between moral atheists and Christians, although they may not agree on the reasoning behind their common ground.

I do, Serpent, like your asterisked final paragraph. I will agree that behavioral evidence is a better indicator of true values than self- or other-assigned labels.

Thank you, moxie, for a great post and a good
laugh! Perhaps Halliburton could be the "Vatican
City" of Jesusland. I'M NOT SORRY!

Moxie, as a devout Anglican, let me just say that you and Pat Tillman have completely changed my mind about athiests. I know that it is of no consequence to you personally, but if I die first and go to Heaven, I will put in a good word for you with "The Man Upstairs."

No crime in geezusland except for corporate crime, since I assume Ken Lay and his likes all live there.

So instead of money being taken thru taxes, it is stolen from the people through fake brown-outs, price gouging and the like.

Either way, those who want your money are going to get it.

Also, since Rush, Noelle Bush, and Betty Ford are citizens there also, drug problems exist. The citizenship simply chooses not to see it. "My world is fine, everything is lovely, we have absolutely no problems." You could also call this place The1950'sLand.

The Serpent wrote:

But the Atheists, at least those that are self-aware are pure evil, right down to the core of their very Souls.

Wow, you pegged me exactly right -- it's almost as if you were here with me today.

After my noontime affair with a married man, I robbed a bank and beat up an old lady over a parking space. Now, if you will excuse me -- I am off to throw a few bunnies in the blender for a snack.

Kerry supporters seek therapy in South Florida!

“A lot of Kerry voters don’t know what to do with their anger, because there was no recount, so they’ve kept it bottled up,” said Schooler, who also is a certified sex therapist. “I help them transform the anger into more positive emotions.”

In my opinion, and I'm no medical professional, Dr. Schooler's dual qualifications make him eminently qualified to dispense the same advice that Dick Cheney did.

OK, Mox won't let me say: "Go .... yourself", but you get the message.

"I thought it was funny when President Reagan was shot"

Oh Hell no! Tell me I didn't hear that! TELL ME YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT!!! Wait a minute, is this the hogonice guy? If that's the case, then I'll stop ranting and congratulate Steve for yanking my chain. If you're not the hogonice guy, then I'm going to find you and make a martini with your testicles......

Since you brought it up, Steve.....

"Bush is Hitler."

Ah, it's amusing watching the Left after their implosion. They're still making stupid photoshop shit like this based on that cliche........

http://bushdictator.ytmnd.com/

If Dennis Miller didn't drive it into their shrinking brain mass already, Bush isn't even near parity to the fascist leader of Douchel....err....I mean Deutschland.

I don't understand liberals. Do they know their history? Do they think that World War 2 was won solely by liberals? Did they forget that Churchill was a member of the Conservative Party? Why not compare Bush to Churchill instead of Hitler? Afterall, Churchill wanted to form a "grand alliance" to crush Hitler's early signs of belligerence in the late 30's. Like Bush, I guess that would make him a warmongering bastard that wanted to invade Germany just to steal Volkswagons, right?

Before you liberals out there call Bush a Nazi, the term "Nazi" is short for National Social-ist German Workers' Party. Stupid wankers.......

...............................................

Serp, you're starting to come across like Pat Buchanan. If I were as hardcore as you, I would be nagging to the non-Catholics everywhere since the Vatican says that Protestants, Jews, etc. are going to hell unless if they join the Church of Rome.

Remember, Serp, this is a political site. While here, try to focus discussion on the other political aspects we all agree on instead.

Now, everybody stop flaming the Serpent! Since Mox isn't biting(fishing analogy), I'm sure Serp won't be throwing that line out again anytime soon.

Anna,

One reason California had brownouts was due to the tree-hugging environmentalist brownstains that didn't want new powerplants built to meet the increasing energy demands.

Drug problems? Your comrades are the ones that want us to be more like the whoring stoners in Holland.

The 1950's were great times. No hippies, no big government, no liberal media, John Wayne......

I want to add that it wasn't just christians that voted President Bush in office. Some Muslims, Wiccans(do believe life begins at conception) etc. Something I used to at the time practice.. There are many issues within other religions and cultures that disagree with the looney lefts stance on that A Unborn Child is a parasite... This is what I was told by a few looney lefties.. funny that your mother could've thought the same when she was having you and didn't... I am now a christian but learned about many religions in school. To many cultures abortions and gay marriage is supposidly wrong>.. I myself am not the judge of how others live their lives if there is an after life they will have to answer to who ever they worship. But those who believe a baby is a parasite are sick...

Moxie! you won an award!
check contra karma
congratulations!

that would be http://www.contrakarma.com

Thank you so much, my dear, for including me.

You know, tonight, while driving my gas guzzling SUV (with extra petrol burning ass monkeys under the hood), I collected a few more bunnies for you. I'm sending Alberto, the underpaid and scantily clothed houseboy, over with them.

Please have the new Bibles for Jesusland available for Al so that we can get them distributed sooner. I have a few Dems tied up in the backyard who seem really interested in converting.

Who else is for requiring a visa for entry into Jesusland for anyone from the United States of Moonbatism?

Oh, and any white people who are born or raised flithy, stinking rich in Africa.

We need to know that we can send them home if they don't fit in.

Jesus Christ who laughs at this shit?

If Liberals seem humorless to you, it's probably because your jokes suck. But like typical knee-jerk conservatives, you blame someone else for your problems.

Enjoy the White House and Congress the next four years because you guys won't have anyone else to blame when your idiotic policies piss of the American Public.

No way to go but down.

great post, mox!

Serpent your devoid of reality. Disagree all you wish it does not change the facts or the truth of my assertions. Your speil was completely disrespectful. I am done with you.Preach to the wind you garner no soul.

Moxie,
I've found that the bunnies-in-a-blender recipe in Betty Crocker is a little bland. Throw in a puppy or kitty for that extra "je nes se quoi"... :)

(pardon my pretentions at French, I'm a sailor, not a linguist)

Tugboat

Doesn't it bother you in the slightest that through your tired, stereotyped and poorly executed rhetoric (yes, shooting fish in a barrel is always entertaining) that you have turned some of your closest friends against you?

Oh wait, no I guess it doesn't because hits and pseudo-popularity are MUCH more important than people who care about you.

Wow - how the mighty have fallen.

Oh and if you think it's just me you have done this to, think again.

Jesus is overrated.

WUH: Do you really think that belief in a Prime Mover is necessary to formulate a system of morality or find agreement in some aspects of a value system?

I believe the notion of Causality and Objectivity (Logic, or Logos) go hand in hand. Without one the other cannot exist.

And if reality isn’t objective then there is really no possibility for (objective) agreement on anything.

WUH: Maybe it would be better to say that Moxie (atheist/delicious babe) and Billy Graham agree for different (or even the same) reasons on something such as the value of life as it relates to abortion.

Well perhaps you can use that “superior” intellect of yours to explain why someone who doesn’t believe in ultimate consequences for action will behave as if they believe in ultimate consequences for action?

WUH: There are plenty of shared values between moral atheists and Christians …

A (true) Atheist is an individual who does not believe in ultimate consequences for their actions. Such individuals are not moral because their actions conform to their beliefs, and an individual who does not believe there will be ultimate consequences for their actions behaves as if that is what they believe.

WUH: …although they [Atheists and Christians] may not agree on the reasoning behind their common ground.

Once again, instead of making ridiculous and self-contradictory assertions why don’t you explain why an individual who does not believe in ultimate consequences for action will behave as if they do believe in ultimate consequences for their actions??

WUH: I will agree that behavioral evidence is a better indicator of true values than self- or other-assigned labels.

Yes, but the source of all sin is in deliberately (knowingly) transmitting False information.

For example, an individual who knows they cannot prove there is no “God” trying to assert that they could prove there is no “God” (but they just don’t feel like it).

perfectd: as a devout Anglican, let me just say that you and Pat Tillman have completely changed my mind about atheists.

Pat Tillman was not an Atheist.

----------------------

The Moxie: Wow, you pegged me exactly right -- it's almost as if you were here with me today.

Well perhaps you are an Atheist in name only? (not a true Atheist)

I mean, look at it like this, does the fact that a Liberal believes he has a superior intellect actually mean that he has a superior intellect in reality?

Although I have heard the theory lately (from many Liberals) that the Republican Hierarchy is merely taking advantage of stupid people.

You do realize that living amongst the Theistic and Stupid could be highly profitable to someone who didn’t believe in ultimate consequences for action? At least in the short run (relatively speaking).

------------------

Reagan80: Serp, you're starting to come across like Pat Buchanan. If I were as hardcore as you, I would be nagging to the non-Catholics everywhere since the Vatican says that Protestants, Jews, etc. are going to hell unless if they join the Church of Rome.

The only Individuals who go to “Hell” are “the Incompatibles” – incompatible entities (consciousnesses), Individuals who derive benefit from the suffering of others. Gravitons with a negative charge.

Reagan80: Remember, Serp, this is a political site. While here, try to focus discussion on the other political aspects we all agree on instead.

1) Political views are merely a manifestation of ones more fundamental “religious” views.

2) Are you actually asserting that the only time I should speak (post) is when we agree? Wouldn’t that would kind of defeat the true purpose of posting (ultimately).

------------------------

Jack Hamilton: Disagree all you wish it does not change the facts or the truth of my assertions.

You mean this assertion?

Jack Hamilton (previously): The fact that she is an atheist does not proclude her from holding a lot of the same values that christians do.

So you are asserting that there is no fundamental difference between a Christian and an Atheist??

I hate to say it Mr. Hamilton, but you sound like a Discordian when you talk like that.

A Christian believes that His God is omniscient, and omnipresent. A Christian believes that his God is watching him all of the time, and that none of his actions escape God’s attention.

The Christian also believes that one day his God will hold him accountable for those actions*.

Essentially you are asserting this will have absolutely no effect on his behavior relative to the Atheist who believes that ALL individuals end up with the same exact fate (ultimately (i.e. “ceasing to exist”)).

All conscious behavior is the result of rewards and punishment. Your non-argument would seem to deny this premise.

* I should point out that these beliefs are common to most major world (theistic) religions, not just Christianity.

If any other Christians were offended by Mox's latest entries, try not to be. We don't want to be like the Leftist PC police that want Canadian-style "hate speech" laws whenever someone gets offended. We need to be more thick-skinned than the vegan pansies that want to live in a world sterile of negative emotions.

Remember that Mox's entries were in response to the Left's blanket generalization that Bush only won because of the "fetus-loving, gay-hating, witch-burning, snake-handling, too-stupid-to-live, and Jesus wafer-eating Christians." I'm sorry if Mox offended y'all, but her satirical writings were meant to bash the Left. Just roll with the punches, turn the other cheek, and forgive her. Let's move on..........

"But like typical knee-jerk conservatives, you blame someone else for your problems."

Oh really? Are we the ones that excuse criminals for their actions and blame them on "society" instead?

The Left blamed Bush for pushing the draft re-instatement bill in Congress, but it was the Democrats(Rangel) that put the bill up for legislation in the first place.

Yeah, we do blame others afterall. We blame the terrorists for killing our people on 9/11, not America. We blame the terrorists when they kill our troops or hostages, not Bush. yadayadayada.........

I was not offended by Moxie’s post (and I pray that she perceives that I meant no insult (or offense) by mine).

But to reiterate once again, my problem is when she asserts that she enjoys the benefits of existing in a Society of non-Atheists (A-Atheists (or Aatheists)) while simultaneously asserting that the basis of those Aatheistic beliefs are absurd and ridiculous.

Theist = An individual with a dogmatic belief in the existence of “God”.
Atheist = An individual with a dogmatic belief in the non-existence of “God” (Not a Theist).
Aatheist = Not an Atheist.

... But with that caveat, I agree with you last post Mr. Reagan.

Sheesh, folks. Some of y'all need to learn to recognize satire, and get senses of humor!

Priceless.

Hey Serpent,
When Pat Tillman's brother spoke at his funeral, he insulted all believers by not only reiterating his brother's beliefs, but by denouncing the idea that he was in Heaven, or any afterlife, for that matter.
Regardless, I find this topic most tiresome, and would like to humbly request that Moxie submit a new post. Let us never argue over this cleraly divisive topic again.
P.S. Reagan80, I received a 78 on my "Crucible" test. F***in' Puritan commies...

Sounds perfect to me!! Love your site by the way!

ARAFAT IS DEAD. Please make that your next post, Queen Moxie the Great.

we liberals win when you conservatives bicker.

Often this point is true, especially when two Republicans run against one popular Democrat. Liberals most always win, however, when conservatives, in their pathetic attempts at "unity," say that "both sides are to blame" or complement liberals. We may have won the battle, but the war is far from over, yet. Of course, we will never win until conservatives realise that there IS a war in the first place. Thank you for that talking point, Fil. I will still hate your guts and everything for which you stand, but I can see that you are clearly wise in your political analyses (see how annoying a rambling these complements are?).

"ARAFAT IS DEAD. Please make that your next post, Queen Moxie the Great."

Moxie, please don't. That would give him much more air time than he rightfully deserves. He's just a shit-stain on the bed sheets of life, and should require only a little extra bleach to eradicate forever.

As to Jesusland.....my sides still hurt! It would be even more hilarious if it weren't so close to the truth. Thanks!!

perfectd: When Pat Tillman's brother spoke at his funeral, he insulted all believers by not only reiterating his brother's beliefs, but by denouncing the idea that he was in Heaven, or any afterlife, for that matter.

So if I want to know about your religious beliefs I should ask your brother?

In that case maybe the Moxie’s Brother will be kind enough to log onto this site and explain her religious beliefs for me?

perfectd: Regardless, I find this topic most tiresome …

Of course, the truth of Atheism must forever be hidden from the light of day. Agod forbid Atheism should be exposed for what it is.

"P.S. Reagan80, I received a 78 on my "Crucible" test. F***in' Puritan commies..."

I feel your pain......*bites lip*

Maybe this will cheer you up.....

DISCLAIMER: Might be offensive. Lyrics are NOT office- or child-friendly, so don't go to link if you are at the job.......

http://tawp.ytmnd.com

Sing along now, everybody.....

This is a response to Mellisa and Fil from postings last week...Moxie's site wouldn't let me send them so, since I wrote such succinct and valid points, I thoght I'd plug them in here and see if they are accepted. Mellisa is an abortion rights person and I hope she is reading this. Fil has a God problem and I will get to him later...

Mellisa: There is no 'right to kill' and that is what most abortions amount to. No one is pro abortion?? Did you know that you are supporting a multi-million dollar a year INDUSTRY?! If it's so important and a "right" for all women...then why aren't your heros at Planned Parenthood giving all of their abortions away for free?? If a family can't afford all of their children, do they have the right to TERMINATE one or two of them just to make ends meet that year? What the hell is wrong with you heartless people?!

And...it would seem to me that you Mellisa, are the one on your "high horse." As has been said already, this is Moxie's website (that she pays for) and she can say and do whatever she wants! It's called capitalism and free economy etc... If you want, you can set up your own site and run it the way YOU want...problem is, recent history has shown that you won't get nearly as much business as Mox and other conservative sites and radio shows will achieve. You need look no further than the election last week to support that fact!
Former president Clinton just spoke a couple of nights ago at Hamilton college, about 50 miles from here where I live (central New York state) He managed to achieve "above the fold" coverage for this PAID speech. And the first thing he said was "...we didn't get our messege out...etc..." When will you folks understand that your messege has been loud and clear for the past 10 years...and that's why you've been losing elections by the dozens since then. Your messege is being whole-heartedly and soundly REJECTED over and over again!! Change your beliefs or at least your messege...or become irrevelant! Remember when a liberal Democrat was John or Bobby Kennedy? I actually was a Dem. back then...but alas, too young to really care.

GOD BLESS; BILL

...which brings me to Fil...(see my next posting)

And Fil... about the whole God vs. intelligence thing....Libs have NEVER understood God. They are afraid of God...yet, deny his existence. Reminds me of fellow Christians who won't acknowledge satan's existence. Bad idea! We tried not to acknowledge the terrorists existence and 9-11 happened. Anyway,point is...think of God like gravity. It doesn't matter weather you believe in it or not. If you step off of a cliff, you will suddenly and very clearly understand gravity! God is there weather you believe in Him or not!

Perhaps the link is that if you have a lot of intelligence, you will realize that there are in fact a lot of things in this world (and out of this world) bigger than you and you will be forced to find some faith. Perhaps God created us in all various sizes and shapes and various levels of intelligence. This would mean that the only real common ground IS in fact FAITH! Intelligence is variable, faith is fixed. So to me, it is perfectly understandable how many people would vote faith and character ahead of intelligence.

And...please stop throwing the term "neo-con" around. There is no 'NEW CONSERVATIVE' movement. There are only the conservatives of Goldwater, Buckley and the late, great Ronald Reagan. It's where our political belief system originated and has evolved to with 'W' being just the latest carrier of the torch. "neo-con" was coined by either someone in the liberal press or one of the Dems and was originally very anti-semitic. The term is now thrown around quite "liberally" (pun intended) by news people and pundits trying to sound more overly intelligent than they actually are!

Hey, wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that people of faith really were the most intelligent among us?!

GOD BLESS; BILL

Moxie, great piece; LMAO! We commented briefly to each other at the Agitator. So, that WAS you on Dennis Miller, huh? You seemed a little shy; your talk with Miller later sounds more like you. Cool blog; I see you have an Evan Williams, too. Didn't you know he was a snake when you let him comment originally? Maybe...

~Ventura~

I have a fitting notion for Arafat's funeral: burial at sea strapped to a wheelchair.

Bill: Metaphysics are bullshit. get over it.

even if they aren't, my argument from, oh, a week and change ago (to which you're responding) is that they should have no bearing (let alone a major one) as to what people select as most important quality when they vote. this topic is long over, though. Tim Higgins posted some very good rebuttal from the right-wing side of things.

perfectd: thanks, I think. I'm not really looking to come here and troll, and I hope I'm proving that not all liberals are sore loser posting "BUSH SUX!!!1one" messages on blogs everywhere.

Still, it's fun coming here; there are a lot of good arguments from the right, and I can respect those while I still have a lot of trouble agreeing with them. Hating my guts for my beliefs is fine; it happens.

Moxie, what you really should do is set up a forum or php message board or something. I can set a nice one up for you if you really need it.

Fil: we liberals win when you conservatives bicker.

Of course Liberals (Atheists) never bicker because they are all of the same mind (Conformists, Solipsists).

Fil: Metaphysics are bullshit. get over it.

Metaphysics are bullshit?

… Maybe in your (subjective) dreams.

Meta = Higher in a sequence
Omni = the maximum in a sequence
Physics = The study of Energy (information) and motion (change in information).

---------------

Bill – 2 good posts!

oh, come now.

Not all liberals are the same, atheistic personality anymore than all conservatives are the same welfare inbred trailer park living-with-4-generations-of-the-same-family hicks.

I'm not an atheist. Agnostic at best.

and you think metaphysics is at least mildly defensible? you've got to be crazy in this day and age.

As a certified (-able) Jesus-worshipper, I personally LMAO at Moxie's post. I'm glad God has a better sense of humor than many of my fellow Christians do.

Fil: Agnostic at best.

See there … I knew I liked you. ;-)

Fil: and you think metaphysics is at least mildly defensible?

Thoroughly defensible, yes sir.

Fil: you've got to be crazy in this day and age.

Sure I am crazy. All us non-liberals are “crazy” don’t you remember? We lack the elitist’s “superior” intellect.

Okay, if Materialism is so “rock-solid” as to dispense with metaphysics, perhaps you can prove that I actually exist as a consciousness instead of merely as a figment of your imagination?

Prove that the “big bang” produced anything other than the single consciousness that is reading this “post”.

Or show me the empirical evidence that “the Matter” exists independent of (any) observation.

"Well, I would say that God (or Tlop if you prefer) is going to save Moxie’s Soul whether Moxie wants her to or not."

God's a WOMAN?!

sorry, serpent; the burden of proof doesn't rest on those who don't believe in crazy shit.

Fil: sorry, serpent; the burden of proof doesn't rest on those who don't believe in crazy shit.

You are the one asserting that “the matter” exists independent of (any) observation (i.e. “crazy shit”).

… And you are the one asserting that you possess magical “free will” powers that allow you to defy the immutable laws of physics (more “crazy shit” (mysticism)).

You are the one asserting that Time did not exist prior to the “Big Bang” (seriously crazy shit – how long did Time not exist for?).

Look, “I” will explain all of reality to you right now …

… I don’t exist as anything other than a figment of your imagination, and neither does “anyone” else. The only thing that the “big bang” produced is the single individual (single Atheist) who is reading this post, and they are just imagining this “universe” and everything in it.

Serpent,

Aristotle dreamed that up while diddlin' a young boy. Is that where you're comin' from?

Serpent -- wait a minute. So you're saying that without God (ultimate being, or in Heidegger's language "Being") there is no way to account for the objectivity of self-conception nor for the objectivity of other self-conscious minds?

Seems you need some exposure to basic cognitive science and philosophy of mind (philosophic naturalism). Read Owen Flanagan's The Problem of the Soul and Colin McGinn The Mysterious Flame: Conscious Minds in a Material World. Also Pinker's How the Mind Works.

Ok, you all are taking this thing waaaaayyyy out there! First of all, I never used the word metaphysical and quite frankly never have! I'm always bothered by people who take what I say and assign definitions and catagories to it to try and explain what I "meant" to say! Bottom line...I said what I said and ...well, there it is. Scroll up and read it again if you like.

As for the attitude you (fil) exibited about me responding to your post from "a week and change ago"--I just read it a few days ago and responded. I'm sorry that I can't spend hours a day reading endless rants on numerous sites from all of you blogger people. I have a "regular" life and it gets me online maybe once or twice a week...in this case it's been over a week and and I'm back today to 'clean' out my inbox cause it's been shut down from me not keeping up with all of the email. In other words...sorry, I guess I'm not a "real blogger." Besides, talk radio and the 24 hour news channels are the "new media"...this internet stuff is just nice "gravy" that let's the rest of us participate once in a while as we bide our time between the 30 day increments the local newspaper limits us to use the "letter to the editor" format on reader's pages in our local communities! And, I hope you all are doing that. There is still a very wide readership of newspapers, in spite of the massive decline over the past few years. I'm fortunate, in my 'town' they will print me regularly in spite of their position almost to the LEFT of the N.Y. Times!! And a helpful hint: edit yourself and don't leave them any room to 'cut' stuff other than for content...then you have a legitimate complaint if and when they do!

That last paragraph of info was for free!! My treat! GOD BLESS; BILL

This is great. I'm going to print it out and give it to my Bible study group.

Just wanted to say that I am flattered and overwhelmed that you still ahve me linked despite my recent laziness with regards to actively blogging. But not for long! Sad to see that Dawn Olsen has somewhat "retired" though.

All politics aside, you rock no matter what "side" your on. :D

Hilarious, truly. You've been added to the blogs on my bloglist.

Ventura – Godel and Bayes are my intellectual allies far more than Aristotle.

------------------------

Robert: So you're saying that without God (ultimate being, or in Heidegger's language "Being") there is no way to account for the objectivity of self-conception nor for the objectivity of other self-conscious minds?

No … what I am saying is that Solipsism and Free will go hand in hand just as Determinism (Fatalism) and Individuality go hand in hand. Do you understand what I mean Algorithm?

Let me put it another way … I have two coins, and you can only choose to have one of them. The first coin has Solipsism on one side, and Free will on the other. The Second coin has Individuality on one side, and Fatalism on the other side.

Which coin do you select?

Robert: Seems you need some exposure to basic cognitive science and philosophy of mind (philosophic naturalism). Read Owen Flanagan's The Problem of the Soul and Colin McGinn The Mysterious Flame: Conscious Minds in a Material World. Also Pinker's How the Mind Works.

At this moment, I am far more interested in what’s inside your mind than in what’s inside Flanagan’s, or McGinn’s, or Pinkers.

Besides, for all you know (for all you can prove) Flanagan, McGinn, and Pinker are just as imaginary as I am.

Serpent,

So, you hitched your wagon to the incompleteness of subjectivity, huh? While they stand on the shoulders of a flaming giant, no less.

In spite of your theoretical elitism, you're seen by the logical to exist merely by posting here.