In a quality contest between a Toyota and just about anything else Toyota wins. If the price difference doesn't bother you go that way. Hyundai makes a good car (the first ones brought into the country years ago were crap, but they are good now) but it isn't a Toyota. The difference is like comparing a Springfield Armory 1911 to a Wilson Combat CQB.

No real experince with Hyundai. I do know the toyota is a great machine. I have never once heard in my life, "God, how could I of been so stupid, why did I buy this Toyota" LOL
I hope you go with the Toyota.

I'd go Toyota. I've had a series of Corollas (salt & such eats them up much faster here), and no problems whatsoever. Evil Ex had a Sportage and that thing was such a lemon, it could turn bystanders' drinks into lemonade just by driving past. I distrust Hyundais compared to Toyotas if only because I've never known someone who's had good luck with theirs. But the list of satisfied Toyota owners I know is a mile long...

Ditto on the manual transmissions.
The Ranger is the first vehicle I've ever had with an automatic.
When I tested the standard, the gearshift was annoyingly clunky to use.
Could have gotten used to it, but I didn't really want to, having been spoiled by my old Honda.

fyi - i have found that these days you can actually get a pretty good deal going direct to a dealership. Most have an internet manager and i would recommend sending out a blast email to all the dealerships in your area, listing what specific vehicle, options you want and be clear you are ready to buy NOW, and want them to cut to the chase. Give you their best price in the first shot.

My hunch is you will get within striking distance of any carsdirect, etc. price.

I recently did this on a 2006 Honda Element which I love. If your list is able to be expanded a bit, I would encourage you to look at the Elements. The thing is like a Swiss Army knife nad has been great for carrying people, stuff from Home Depot as well as the BEST dog vehicle around. The built-in AUX input is also handy for your Mox-iPod.

Best of luck.
sdg

It's not a question of where they are built or by whom, it's a question of where the profits go and who makes the decisions. Most GM cars are built in Canada, and that's fine with me, because the profits come here.

And, Chrysler doesn't own Mercedes, Mercedes owns Chrysler. Chrysler is no longer an American car company. The money goes to Germany and the decisions are made in Germany, with some decisions made in Detroit by the local German überleutnant.

But at your request, I'm counting you out.

I recnetly bought a Honda Accord.
I took the carsdirect printout to the dealer.
After testdriving the car, I asked the salesman
if they could match the carsdirect price.
They could & did.

I just bought a 2006 Honda CR-V and I'm liking it alot. Same class as the Rav4 with similar (but mostly superior) stats and I got it for around $18,000 base.

I know it's late to be adding a car to your list, but ...

Neither vehicle will hurt you, but I vote Toyota. I've done things to Toyota trucks that you'd think would utterly destroy them, but in fact had almost no effect at all. Beyond that it's all about service and warranty. Good on you for the stick, they're a lot more fun to drive. You'll have to have a barrel you can burn excess gasoline in, though, they're pretty good on gas and you don't want people to think you're an eco-hippie. If you mix used motor oil with the gas it's a nice smoky fire.

DT, darn it - you are right about Mercedes. It was late when I typed this, I thought twice about that one but obviously got it backwards. I still don't care about where the profits go. Good jobs and benefits for Americans is good enough for me.

Russ, I was able to look at the CR-V. It just didn't do it for me, prolly because my first car was an old Honda and the interior looked exactly the same! I love the RAV4 and found a price that's not much more than the CR-V

Scott, Thanks for the advice! I will do that.

mjlijewski, Taking a print out to the dealer is an excellent suggestion. Nothing like showing them proof that you WILL buy the vehicle elsewhere if they can't cut you a deal.

I do like my Hyundai Tucson, but you certainly can not go wrong with a Toyota. As others here have attested, you never hear anyone complaining about them.

I was trying to find a video clip a pal had sent me that shows the cast of the BBC show "Top Gear" beating the bejeezus out of an older Toyota truck--and each time after cleaning it up a little bit they managed to start the engine again. They ran it into a tree at a good clip, dropped it from about 20 ft, submerged it overnight in seawater, and even put it on the roof of a 20+ story apartment building which was then imploded!

Each time they managed to clean it up and start it up!

Unfortunately, I can no longer find the clip on Google, but here are some good Top Gear clips I did find:

This clip shows the difference of handling among cars with rear-, front-, and all-wheel drive.

This "safety" clip shows what happens when you drive your car behind a 747 with its engines revved (this happens way too often).

And here's a clip that shows you how to beat the automated speed cameras, which I assume must be in use in England (tip: you need to be driving 170+ mph!).

Dar, those videos are really fun! Thanks for sending the links.

I wonder if they ever show Top Gear on BBC America...seems all they ever show on BBCA is "Cash in the Attic" those freaky Brits and their dusty antiques.

Put in another vote for anything made by Toyota. I'm finally set to replace my 12-year-old Celica with 201,000 miles -- it's starting to get worn out, but still has plenty of life left in it for whoever I sell it to.

After looking long and hard for a replacement, and digesting the requirements (manual tranny, around 200hp, prefer rear-wheel drive, must be no longer than my Celica for parallel parking in SF), I had it down to a new Acura RSX-S or a used Lexus IS300. I went with the Lexus; waited a few months while I found the right one; I pick it up in SD Saturday to drive it home. The Ford/GM/Chrysler cars in the category didn't make it past the first round eliminations. Sorry, Detroit: if the UAW won't let its employers be competitive on offering good quality for the price, it's their misfortune and none of my own. I'll see if they're any better in another 10 years, when it's time for me to replace the Lexus.

And I -- very briefly -- flirted with the idea of picking up a late-90s Mercedes SL500 for about the same as I'm buying the Lexus for ... but then I found out about Mercedes quality control over the past 15 years or so. No wonder they're selling so cheap now: the purchase price is just the entry fee.

Mox, you might want to check with your bank, or with your insurance company, if they're a full-service financial institution like mine. USAA has a purchasing service where you select the car and options you want -- down to the color -- and they'll call around to dealers for you and negotiate the best price. When the Acura was still in the running, they found one for me at about $500 over dealer invoice.

I vote Toyota. Korea has some uncomfortable recent activity. In your neighborhood... that's REALLY bad karma. Carma?

"These Escalade and Hummer drivers force people who drive NORMAL sized autos into stranger's driveways, random alleys and once (that I witnessed), a front lawn. Some minor damage is better than playing bumper cars with an opponent whose front wheel is taller than your entire vehicle. Getting stuck to the driver's side of a giant SUV is also officially NOT sexy. "

That hurts, but I am still keeping my Escalade.

I'd go with the Toyota. I have a Lexus (no, not a huge one) and I love it. Go for the manual. My last 3 cars have been manuals - so much more fun to drive. Did you look at any Mazdas? I had a Miata and that was the best car ever. Never did a thing but change the oil and replace the tires.

Manual transmission, yes!

And the scariest place to walk with my kid is the parking lot of his school, of all places. There are so many Escalades that even I'm not tall enough to see imminent danger half of the time--and I'm pretty sure the drivers don't see us, as often as not.

Toyota is a great pick, I'd steer clear of Hyundai. I know lots of people who've had really bad luck with that brand.

hyundais are surprisingly nice cars for the money. they're pretty loaded, and have good durability.

get a vw golf. the hatchback is essentially an suv. goooood gas mielage.

Mox,

I'm an infrequent visitor and an even less frequent commenter, but I have to say a bit about this.

I have a 97 Toyota Corolla with nearly 150K miles on it. I'm not a car fanatic - I take I'd say average care of it, but I don't abuse it. I change the oil, but not as often as the manufacturer's recommendations, put new wiper blades on it, etc.

It has *never* been in the shop for anything but routine maintenance!

After almost 150K miles, it still even has plenty of brake pads left, front and rear.

For my money, you can't beat a Toyota/Lexus. Best cars on the planet. I'd buy another one in a second. The one I have now, I plan to drive for 3 more years, then give it to my son when he's old enough to drive. When that happens, I'll buy another Toyota or Lexus.

I second the vote for the VW. It's a matter of personal prejudice, my dislike of Toyotas. I don't fit. Some day they will, again, make cars in my size, but I won't hold my breath.

OTOH, I fit the 2006 VW Golf GTI, so thus is must be vastly superior car. There is also the 2006 Honda Civic Si, which also meets the "fit" requirement.

But if you must buy (shudder) Toyota, then at least the Rav/4 is a grand choice. For myself, I'll stick to my BMW...motorcycle.

Hyundai vs Toyota?

Compare the resale of any hyundai vs any toyota from any year ever on any model or line.

This is a no brainer.

" I still don't care about where the profits go. Good jobs and benefits for Americans is good enough for me"

I forgot, ...as a follow up to my recommendation of the Honda Element. The Honda Element is made in OHIO, by NON-UNION employees! What could be better?!!!

sdg

By now I'm sure you're tooling around in your RAV-4 ... is so, let us know about it, I'm looking for something about that size for my stepson, who recently wrecked his little truck. I'm somewhat partial to Toyotas myself, the only non-Toy vehicles I've bought in the past 30 years have been motorhomes. My current winter vehicle (non-icy road vehicle is a Honda Goldwing) is an 8 year old Sienna with 100k on it, only shop visit was to have a broken door handle replaced (came apart in minus 30 temps while trying to force an iced up handle open ... my bad). Even with that, Toyota paid the shot.